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Permalink Reply by Arthur on February 3, 2012 at 12:04am

I have also noticed this new bye-law and like you said it is probably being introduced to conserve Salmon Stocks

But I have a one serious problem with this new Bye-law 888.

If you cant fish for Trout say using Worms and other such illegal bait, that only leaves Maggots as an alternative.

As we all know maggots are an indiscriminate food and it closely resembles caddisfly larvae and Trout like this food.

But so do Young Salmon (smolt) and young sea trout. So we will now have trout anglers catching greater qty's of these young fish that everyone wants to conserve and studies have shown that fish that have been caught and released have higher mortality rates and by introducing this new Law will probably have a bigger impact then illegal fishing.

So I would like for everyone to put their hands together for the genius's that thought up this new Bye-Law and enjoy the fishing for however how long it lasts.

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Permalink Reply by Andrew Coxhead on February 3, 2012 at 10:23am

That is an interesting point Arthur, i do not actually fish for Salmon myself and i do not fish for them with my clients either and as such i have just always associated Salmon fishing with the fly although i am fully aware that bait fishing for them is widely undertaken i have no idea of the numbers of anglers that this aspect will affect.

You are absolutely right that anglers will turn to alternative baits and i have no doubt that the smolts will be caught, but in what numbers, are there actually that many trout bait anglers that they are going to impact on this juvenile fish population?

Indeed caught and returned fish have been proven to struggle after capture on the whole, but i have read studies to suggest that it is not just because they have been caught and returned but because of the way in which they have been caught and returned which offsets the true reading of these studies. For example if you hook a good trout on the appropriate tackle, that is to say not oversized hooks and sufficient line and rod strength, play the fish firmly and unhook it using a catch and release tool without the fish ever leaving the water, then i have no doubt that the fish will survive without issue, in fact i know this for a fact as i have worked and been in and around the stocked fishery business all my life and have witnessed this first hand, studies aside.

I think where the problem comes on this point, is the way that fish are caught then treated and returned, even on this great website there is a picture that comes up showing somebody unhooking a pike flank side down on a concrete slab.....i can tell you know that that fish struggled after it was returned and if it did'nt the contact with the concrete assuming the fish did not move at all would be enough to cause some kind of abrasions to the fishes flank.......This is just simply a educational issue, anglers buy the kit and then they go catch a fish without really knowing how to treat there quarry, and this goes for all fish species and has been a point of contention for me since childhood when i saw the problems that this lack of understanding can cause.

Myself and clients often catch juvenile fish of all sorts on the fly and they are very easy to unhook without causeing any damage to them by just not handling them, rather we release them using a tool called a Catchum and realease tool. Job done.

However all this said, you are perfectly correct in what you say....I wander how many extra smolts will be caught on maggot that would not have otherwise been caught on worm?

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Permalink Reply by Arthur on February 3, 2012 at 12:37pm

Hi Andrew, thank you for the feedback.

You are absolutely correct with regard to proper and improper catch and release methods and more importantly the lack of education being provided about this subject.

A simple flyer with every license and permit would suffice.

Answer to your question regarding how many trout anglers are there.

I spoke to a few tackle shop owners and they reckon 80% of new rods they sell are for trout fishing.

The way they put it to me was as follows....

Examples: young kids taking up fishing for the first time, Grandparents bringing there grand kids fishing and so on.

The reason also being that Trout fishing for the novice angler is relatively inexpensive and I would say nearly all seasoned anglers took up Trout fishing at the start of their fishing careers.

Cheap trout rods can now be bought in Aldi's and such, Plus there is a vast amount of private Trout fishing clubs in this country and in light of the current economic situation, how many people are re/joining these clubs, when they can fish natural waterways for next to nothing..

Andrew this will also have a knock on effect with Pike as they depend on these fish through all stages of their life directly and indirectly.

Tight lines and Regards,

Andrew Coxhead said:

That is an interesting point Arthur, i do not actually fish for Salmon myself and i do not fish for them with my clients either and as such i have just always associated Salmon fishing with the fly although i am fully aware that bait fishing for them is widely undertaken i have no idea of the numbers of anglers that this aspect will affect.

You are absolutely right that anglers will turn to alternative baits and i have no doubt that the smolts will be caught, but in what numbers, are there actually that many trout bait anglers that they are going to impact on this juvenile fish population?

Indeed caught and returned fish have been proven to struggle after capture on the whole, but i have read studies to suggest that it is not just because they have been caught and returned but because of the way in which they have been caught and returned which offsets the true reading of these studies. For example if you hook a good trout on the appropriate tackle, that is to say not oversized hooks and sufficient line and rod strength, play the fish firmly and unhook it using a catch and release tool without the fish ever leaving the water, then i have no doubt that the fish will survive without issue, in fact i know this for a fact as i have worked and been in and around the stocked fishery business all my life and have witnessed this first hand, studies aside.

I think where the problem comes on this point, is the way that fish are caught then treated and returned, even on this great website there is a picture that comes up showing somebody unhooking a pike flank side down on a concrete slab.....i can tell you know that that fish struggled after it was returned and if it did'nt the contact with the concrete assuming the fish did not move at all would be enough to cause some kind of abrasions to the fishes flank.......This is just simply a educational issue, anglers buy the kit and then they go catch a fish without really knowing how to treat there quarry, and this goes for all fish species and has been a point of contention for me since childhood when i saw the problems that this lack of understanding can cause.

Myself and clients often catch juvenile fish of all sorts on the fly and they are very easy to unhook without causeing any damage to them by just not handling them, rather we release them using a tool called a Catchum and realease tool. Job done.

However all this said, you are perfectly correct in what you say....I wander how many extra smolts will be caught on maggot that would not have otherwise been caught on worm?

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Permalink Reply by Andrew Coxhead on February 3, 2012 at 9:15pm

Yep, it is an educational thing, one of the reasons i set up a fishing school. It is very hard to reach the correct audience in sufficient numbers to truly make a difference, however every tip shared helps, so it is up to the experienced anglers to educate the newcomers......now on this point the experienced anglers are very good at handing down fishing tips, locations/hotspots, seasonal tips and knowledge in general, but, they are not so good with the fish handling thing or conservation issues......and please no one person be offended here i am just saying on the whole there is a weakness in this knowledge.

I will give you an example about twelve years ago i moved to Corrib and was so impressed with the commadary and the level of politics and passion that ran with in the various clubs and individuals, brilliant. There was this fella a life long Corrib angler that passionately belived that Corrib was finished because of all the new money trolling anglers taking lots of fish on this rather un-couth method and he believed that there were just to many new money anglers traveling from all parts of the country to raid the excellent fishing that was at that point to be found on the loch. He really belived that it was all over.......opening day came.....i went out i took 1 fish for the table and returned half a dozen or so and i felt good, i had my fish and my fun, cracking.......on my return home i ran into the fella who was dragging a landing net up the road full to the brim with undersized fish and grand fish alike, if my memory serves correctly he said he had 22 fish, killed two pike and killed two perch....basically a fecking slaughter! And do you know how he caught them, Trolling.

This chap had two sons who he had taught to fish and very good anglers they are at all disciplines of fly fishing and trolling, in fact i was asked by the family to enhance the finer points for them, great anglers turned out to be far better than me, but for the life of me i could not get them to understand how we need to keep a check on the conservation aspects, it just seemed to go right through them.

So i guess my point is we need to educate the new anglers before they go anywhere near a fish, not an easy task....i mean in Germany it is really strict you have to be a member of a club and mentored etc etc before you can take yourself of for a few casts. Is that going to happen here? I do not think so!

Any way you have me thinking now, where there is a will there is a way........look tight lines for now, and i hope that everyone gets there fair share of pulls this season, let us all keep an eye on the ball and preserve what we love most!

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Permalink Reply by declan murray on February 5, 2012 at 2:27pm

i just googled that ketchum and release tool? is that it? anyway couldnt copy and paste it on here, but did on my facebook page to show my angler friends, looks a handy tool, never seen it before, i troll on ree using single treble lures and release probably 90 to 95% of the fish i catch,all fish swim away in excellent condition,  what are your thoughts on this method? or do i really not want to hear this :)

i do fly fish too, getting more into it the last few yrs, but by no means an expert :) but enjoy it

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Permalink Reply by Andrew Coxhead on February 5, 2012 at 5:43pm

That is it Ketchum and release tool, great piece of kit and i believe that there are lots of companies selling the same or similar tools.

I have no bother with people trolling, every man to his own! What ever fish you catch on what ever method you choose, if they are caught and handled properly there should be no problem.

No, my point in the last post was that the fella at Corrib who was banging on about fish conservation actually had no values of his own at all, to the point of sacrilege.

It does not matter what form your fishing takes, one must have values which hopefully lead to boundaries and it is these boundaries that will protect the fish stocks and habitat that as anglers we need to exist.

The question is are there enough values with in the angling fraternity to protect the fish we catch?

On the whole i think there is, but i also think there are enough minorities out there to take the equation out of balance.

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